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	<title>Comments on: On Anti-Adoption Rhetoric&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Most Commented On Posts of 2009 &#8212; Hoping to Adopt</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1720</link>
		<dc:creator>Most Commented On Posts of 2009 &#8212; Hoping to Adopt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1720</guid>
		<description>[...] On Anti-Adoption Rhetoric on the Adoptive Parenting Blog received 10 comments. (If you don&#8217;t already know what the word rhetoric means, you will after reading the comments. Me and my dictionary, we&#8217;re very close.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On Anti-Adoption Rhetoric on the Adoptive Parenting Blog received 10 comments. (If you don&#8217;t already know what the word rhetoric means, you will after reading the comments. Me and my dictionary, we&#8217;re very close.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney O</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1686</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1686</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing your views, msiml, and for reading.

Best,
Courtney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing your views, msiml, and for reading.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Courtney</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney O</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1685</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments, catym, and for reading. I am deeply sorry for the lifelong pain you have experienced as well as your misunderstanding of my use of the term &quot;rhetoric&quot;. Please consult: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetoric and note the possible definitions. I use the term &quot;rhetoric&quot; in regard to the definitions listed under number 4 and 6; I apologize if you assume I elected the term to fall in suit with the idea of &quot;exaggeration&quot;. 

Best,
Courtney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, catym, and for reading. I am deeply sorry for the lifelong pain you have experienced as well as your misunderstanding of my use of the term &#8220;rhetoric&#8221;. Please consult: <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetoric" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetoric</a> and note the possible definitions. I use the term &#8220;rhetoric&#8221; in regard to the definitions listed under number 4 and 6; I apologize if you assume I elected the term to fall in suit with the idea of &#8220;exaggeration&#8221;. </p>
<p>Best,<br />
Courtney</p>
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		<title>By: catym</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>catym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>My lifelong pain I have experienced at the hands of the adoption industry is considered rhetoric. Nice. And this is by the people who claim to have the best interests of the adoptee at heart. It&#039;s not about best interest is it? It&#039;s about compliance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My lifelong pain I have experienced at the hands of the adoption industry is considered rhetoric. Nice. And this is by the people who claim to have the best interests of the adoptee at heart. It&#8217;s not about best interest is it? It&#8217;s about compliance.</p>
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		<title>By: msiml</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>msiml</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1458</guid>
		<description>I am floored that you were floored by anti-adoption rhetoric.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is anti-adoption rhetoric? What does it mean to you? How often do you encounter it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From my perspective as a woman who lost her child to the domestic infant adoption industry I am floored when I see the RHETORIC on any given site when you type in the words &quot;infant adoption.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am surprised, shocked, and stunned that you would think that any woman here in the US or around the world who has lost  a child to adoption would NOT have a rather negative view of adoption.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really doubt that my pain is worse than the woman from Nepal, Ethiopia, or the next up-and-coming country who sells their children into adoption because they care so little for their women or communities. Few of us have a voice to tell you just how horrible it is to lose a child at birth and yet you tell us that it is &quot;rhetoric.&quot; Please!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps you might consider the following pro-adoption &quot;rhetoric&quot;: the forever family, the unwanted child, the best interest of the child, the 2-parent household, the &quot;better&quot; life... ad nauseum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So why shouldn&#039;t there be another side of this adoption fairy tale? And why weren&#039;t you expecting it? Did you believe the &quot;as if born to&quot; rhetoric?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you want to call an alternative view &quot;anti-adoption&quot; and &quot;rhetoric&quot; (as if it doesn&#039;t mean anything) then don&#039;t be surprised that there are as many women out there who think that what you say is nothing more than &quot;rhetoric.&quot; There are as many women who have adopted as those who have lost children to adoption, so don&#039;t think that there isn&#039;t another side out there as equally as effected by adoption as you are. And don&#039;t expect to sit back in your comfortable chair and think that you’re not going to hear about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shocked and stunned indeed - you should try losing your flesh and blood - you will understand just how shocked and stunned a person can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am floored that you were floored by anti-adoption rhetoric.</p>
<p>What is anti-adoption rhetoric? What does it mean to you? How often do you encounter it?</p>
<p>From my perspective as a woman who lost her child to the domestic infant adoption industry I am floored when I see the RHETORIC on any given site when you type in the words &#8220;infant adoption.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am surprised, shocked, and stunned that you would think that any woman here in the US or around the world who has lost  a child to adoption would NOT have a rather negative view of adoption.</p>
<p>I really doubt that my pain is worse than the woman from Nepal, Ethiopia, or the next up-and-coming country who sells their children into adoption because they care so little for their women or communities. Few of us have a voice to tell you just how horrible it is to lose a child at birth and yet you tell us that it is &#8220;rhetoric.&#8221; Please!</p>
<p>Perhaps you might consider the following pro-adoption &#8220;rhetoric&#8221;: the forever family, the unwanted child, the best interest of the child, the 2-parent household, the &#8220;better&#8221; life&#8230; ad nauseum.</p>
<p>So why shouldn&#8217;t there be another side of this adoption fairy tale? And why weren&#8217;t you expecting it? Did you believe the &#8220;as if born to&#8221; rhetoric?</p>
<p>If you want to call an alternative view &#8220;anti-adoption&#8221; and &#8220;rhetoric&#8221; (as if it doesn&#8217;t mean anything) then don&#8217;t be surprised that there are as many women out there who think that what you say is nothing more than &#8220;rhetoric.&#8221; There are as many women who have adopted as those who have lost children to adoption, so don&#8217;t think that there isn&#8217;t another side out there as equally as effected by adoption as you are. And don&#8217;t expect to sit back in your comfortable chair and think that you’re not going to hear about it.</p>
<p>Shocked and stunned indeed &#8211; you should try losing your flesh and blood &#8211; you will understand just how shocked and stunned a person can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney O</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>Thanks, ibnzayd, for sharing your point of view. I have removed the&lt;br /&gt;
number of links you attached to the bottom of your post as other&lt;br /&gt;
readers may view that as spam and not really listen to what you have&lt;br /&gt;
to say. Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, ibnzayd, for sharing your point of view. I have removed the<br />
number of links you attached to the bottom of your post as other<br />
readers may view that as spam and not really listen to what you have<br />
to say. Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: ibnzayd</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>ibnzayd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>If you will allow me to differ. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The case-by-case basis will always support your position, this is an invalid logical foot to stand on if you will; you cannot prove a generalized thesis by stating the exceptional case--this is the cowardly side of the argument that lends itself to rather conservative diatribes against &quot;crack mothers&quot;, for example, in order to prove that a social welfare system is a &quot;bad thing&quot;--just to paint the company you are lumping yourselves with by making this statement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;A little reform&quot; is not the answer either. If you had a doctor treating cancer patients with bandaids--treating the symptoms but not the disease--you wouldn&#039;t change to a different color bandaid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adoption is based in the leveraging of inequality by a dominant class in order to procure children for those who have none from those who ideally would keep their children except for circumstances that are a direct result of this class difference to begin with. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So you don&#039;t get to have this objective position removed from the fray, when the class position that allows you to adopt creates the problem you are trying to &quot;help&quot; in the first place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the international level, your same class is the one that enables, funds, equips, provides for, and sustains economic and political wars around the world that result in the very &quot;orphans&quot; (who all have extended families) that you claim to &quot;save&quot; by adopting them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is like a pyromaniac firefighter complaining about his work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When hundreds of us are advocating for the rights to unsealed birth certificates and the reunification of families, and when hundreds of us are returning to our lands of birth in order to reclaim a sense of identity and work to help undo some of the damage done to these forgotten places in the globe; when hundreds if not thousands of us are activated to help make the world a better place in the bigger picture because we are not so cynical to believe that &quot;there is nothing we can do&quot;, and not just in terms of individual so-called happiness, or a joy-joy so-called perfect nuclear family, might it not behoove you to look at this work and perhaps join in and support it on this activist level--and not on the individual, and--sorry to say it--selfish level, which is just another symptom of the class differential I am describing? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you will allow me to differ. </p>
<p>The case-by-case basis will always support your position, this is an invalid logical foot to stand on if you will; you cannot prove a generalized thesis by stating the exceptional case&#8211;this is the cowardly side of the argument that lends itself to rather conservative diatribes against &#8220;crack mothers&#8221;, for example, in order to prove that a social welfare system is a &#8220;bad thing&#8221;&#8211;just to paint the company you are lumping yourselves with by making this statement.</p>
<p>&#8220;A little reform&#8221; is not the answer either. If you had a doctor treating cancer patients with bandaids&#8211;treating the symptoms but not the disease&#8211;you wouldn&#8217;t change to a different color bandaid.</p>
<p>Adoption is based in the leveraging of inequality by a dominant class in order to procure children for those who have none from those who ideally would keep their children except for circumstances that are a direct result of this class difference to begin with. </p>
<p>So you don&#8217;t get to have this objective position removed from the fray, when the class position that allows you to adopt creates the problem you are trying to &#8220;help&#8221; in the first place.</p>
<p>On the international level, your same class is the one that enables, funds, equips, provides for, and sustains economic and political wars around the world that result in the very &#8220;orphans&#8221; (who all have extended families) that you claim to &#8220;save&#8221; by adopting them. </p>
<p>This is like a pyromaniac firefighter complaining about his work.</p>
<p>When hundreds of us are advocating for the rights to unsealed birth certificates and the reunification of families, and when hundreds of us are returning to our lands of birth in order to reclaim a sense of identity and work to help undo some of the damage done to these forgotten places in the globe; when hundreds if not thousands of us are activated to help make the world a better place in the bigger picture because we are not so cynical to believe that &#8220;there is nothing we can do&#8221;, and not just in terms of individual so-called happiness, or a joy-joy so-called perfect nuclear family, might it not behoove you to look at this work and perhaps join in and support it on this activist level&#8211;and not on the individual, and&#8211;sorry to say it&#8211;selfish level, which is just another symptom of the class differential I am describing? </p>
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		<title>By: Courtney O</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>@Jess: First and foremost--thanks for both the comment and for reading. :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That said, it never even occurred to me that a world without adoption could (or would ever be) exist. I think we&#039;re all in agreement in saying that&#039;s a complete impossibility (even if it were to somehow be declared an illegal act), and I, for one, am so grateful for said impossibility. The very thought escapes me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not sure if &quot;worry&quot; is the best word to describe my concern. I strongly feel that--even taking adoption outside of the equation--every parent has moments when they think to the future and hope their child will remain as close to them as they are now (as both my kids are toddlers). Does that make sense?  Perhaps I wasn&#039;t too clear in that paragraph--I guess the very discussion of anti-adoption rhetoric threw me for a loop. ;) Seriously, though, I do hope that although there may come a time when she might say it out of anger, that she&#039;d never honestly regret growing up as my daughter. I have more several friends who were adopted as infants and offer extremely different viewpoints as to whether or not they feel &quot;slighted&quot; by growing up without their first parent(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not entirely certain that I agree that all (per se) adoptive parents consciously or unconsciously put down or ignore first parents. I do, however, think it&#039;s much more common than it should be (read as: at all). But at the same time, I think the progression of thought in adoption has come SO far over the last few decades from when it was a &quot;hush hush&quot; routine, and so much shame and blame was placed on so many first parents and adopted children. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many thanks for the link to your blog! I&#039;ll be certain to check it out. I&#039;m so curious as to see the status of said debate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Warmly,&lt;br /&gt;
Courtney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jess: First and foremost&#8211;thanks for both the comment and for reading. <img src='http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That said, it never even occurred to me that a world without adoption could (or would ever be) exist. I think we&#8217;re all in agreement in saying that&#8217;s a complete impossibility (even if it were to somehow be declared an illegal act), and I, for one, am so grateful for said impossibility. The very thought escapes me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if &#8220;worry&#8221; is the best word to describe my concern. I strongly feel that&#8211;even taking adoption outside of the equation&#8211;every parent has moments when they think to the future and hope their child will remain as close to them as they are now (as both my kids are toddlers). Does that make sense?  Perhaps I wasn&#8217;t too clear in that paragraph&#8211;I guess the very discussion of anti-adoption rhetoric threw me for a loop. <img src='http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Seriously, though, I do hope that although there may come a time when she might say it out of anger, that she&#8217;d never honestly regret growing up as my daughter. I have more several friends who were adopted as infants and offer extremely different viewpoints as to whether or not they feel &#8220;slighted&#8221; by growing up without their first parent(s).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely certain that I agree that all (per se) adoptive parents consciously or unconsciously put down or ignore first parents. I do, however, think it&#8217;s much more common than it should be (read as: at all). But at the same time, I think the progression of thought in adoption has come SO far over the last few decades from when it was a &#8220;hush hush&#8221; routine, and so much shame and blame was placed on so many first parents and adopted children. </p>
<p>Many thanks for the link to your blog! I&#8217;ll be certain to check it out. I&#8217;m so curious as to see the status of said debate.</p>
<p>Warmly,<br />
Courtney</p>
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		<title>By: osolomama</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>osolomama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to read some of the opinions of those who are hard-core anti-adoption. Neither can I imagine a world without adoption, totally. Though kids around the world needing care could benefit from a range of options, including more kinship care and more guardianships, I can&#039;t imagine a time when adoption would be eliminated entirely. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think you need to worry about the love your child feels for you or how you feel about your child. Those things become certain and unwavering over time. People who dispute that our families are even legitinate families will always have their opinions but in the end it&#039;s the certainty you have with your child that counts. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I might part company with you on the need for adoption reform. I think it&#039;s pretty pressing and that more than &quot;a bit&quot; is needed on the domestic and int&#039;l front. I do believe, wholeheartedly, that a-parents consciously or unconciously put down or ignore first parents and often give their kids grief over the topic. But I totally understand your feeling of going &quot;Huh?&quot; about the most unbridled anti-adoption rhetoric.  Incidentally, there&#039;s a humdinger going on at my blog now: is adoption = to abduction and are a-parents captors and do adoptive kids have Stockholm Syndrome? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All the best - &lt;br /&gt;
Jess&lt;br /&gt;
http://osolomama.wordpress.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to read some of the opinions of those who are hard-core anti-adoption. Neither can I imagine a world without adoption, totally. Though kids around the world needing care could benefit from a range of options, including more kinship care and more guardianships, I can&#8217;t imagine a time when adoption would be eliminated entirely. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you need to worry about the love your child feels for you or how you feel about your child. Those things become certain and unwavering over time. People who dispute that our families are even legitinate families will always have their opinions but in the end it&#8217;s the certainty you have with your child that counts. </p>
<p>I might part company with you on the need for adoption reform. I think it&#8217;s pretty pressing and that more than &#8220;a bit&#8221; is needed on the domestic and int&#8217;l front. I do believe, wholeheartedly, that a-parents consciously or unconciously put down or ignore first parents and often give their kids grief over the topic. But I totally understand your feeling of going &#8220;Huh?&#8221; about the most unbridled anti-adoption rhetoric.  Incidentally, there&#8217;s a humdinger going on at my blog now: is adoption = to abduction and are a-parents captors and do adoptive kids have Stockholm Syndrome? </p>
<p>All the best &#8211; <br />
Jess<br />
<a href="http://osolomama.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://osolomama.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Courtney O</title>
		<link>http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric/comment-page-1#comment-1453</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 04:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adoptive-par.www.adoptionblogs.com/2009/09/06/on-anti-adoption-rhetoric#comment-1453</guid>
		<description>@Robyn: I hear you. I was so speechless the first time I even HEARD the very notion of &quot;anti-adoption&quot; sentiments, I almost fell out of my chair. I do try to see both sides, but it&#039;s obvious where my loyalties lie. And a world without adoption? Of that I&#039;d want no part, believe me. :) But to each his/her own. I&#039;ve heard some valid arguments against but the cases presented were more exceptions to the norm than the norm, you know? (At least in my experience.) It seems that most who are anti-adoption have had horrible experiences with adoption that have shaped their views. I can understand that, but the pretense of ALL adoption being an essentially &quot;bad&quot; thing--that&#039;s beyond my realm of comprehension. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Robyn: I hear you. I was so speechless the first time I even HEARD the very notion of &#8220;anti-adoption&#8221; sentiments, I almost fell out of my chair. I do try to see both sides, but it&#8217;s obvious where my loyalties lie. And a world without adoption? Of that I&#8217;d want no part, believe me. <img src='http://adoptive-parenting.adoptionblogs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But to each his/her own. I&#8217;ve heard some valid arguments against but the cases presented were more exceptions to the norm than the norm, you know? (At least in my experience.) It seems that most who are anti-adoption have had horrible experiences with adoption that have shaped their views. I can understand that, but the pretense of ALL adoption being an essentially &#8220;bad&#8221; thing&#8211;that&#8217;s beyond my realm of comprehension.</p>
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